JAKOB PINTAR (TaBar)

The concept and philosophy of TaBar seeks to strike a balance between fine dining and the comfort of bistro-style snacks. How do you combine playfulness and expression on the one hand, and technical perfection on the other?

Perhaps this was more pronounced at TaBar's previous location, where we combined everything in one place and therefore sought a balance between a bar and fine dining, but here the two concepts are separate – upstairs is fine dining, where everything is "very by the book", and downstairs is the bar, where we serve snacks and lunches, so we no longer have to worry about finding a middle ground.

The playfulness is definitely still there, since I'm young and love exploring, but I have to admit that this separation concept has actually been a big challenge for me over the past year. I transitioned from head chef to owner and manager of three conceptually distinct segments. But once you get through it, even if it's difficult, you look back and feel satisfied because your efforts have made you stronger and helped you reach a new level.

Over time, we managed to find an optimal approach that works for us. With the lunches, I'm now only involved at the conceptual stage while a colleague takes care of the actual implementation, which has taken a lot of pressure off me. We create the bar menu together, offering simple dishes that are less demanding to prepare. Everyone who works in our kitchen is also involved in creating new dishes, but there is no time pressure – it's ready when it's ready. But it helps me and takes the pressure off, so that I'm not the only one responsible for creativity.

Since you designed the new TaBar concept, how do you and Jurij feel about dividing the house into a relaxed lower floor and a sophisticated upper floor, offering different culinary experiences in the same space?

Over time, the centre of Ljubljana has become very touristy, which is typical for a modern European capital. We wanted to move away from the central space where there is a lot more generic stuff, and go somewhere where the locals feel more at home. Center Rog seemed ideal to us. It’s a place where smart, creative people work, the atmosphere is great, and the space itself is very creative, so our restaurant fits in perfectly.

We've won over the locals with delicious, affordable lunches and a reasonably priced bar menu, accompanied by carefully selected dishes that complement the drinks. The aim is for people to return regularly, not just on special occasions. But of course, I always wanted to complement this with fine dining in a manner that was not possible at the old location. The latter is particularly important for me and my development. I felt I had a great deal of creativity within myself, which may have been somewhat stifled over the past year due to all the concerns and tasks associated with the move, but now that things are settling down, it's time to pursue it. I feel that desire to explore again. Of course, this is not only important to me, but also to our employees. There are many young, promising chefs in Slovenia who are eager to learn and who enjoy this dynamic line of work.
On one side, there's the bar, which is relaxed and "quirky", and it's cool and fun to work there. On the other side, there's fine dining, where you can show off your technical skills and express all your creativity – you can "indulge" yourself a little with the guests. In short, I can say that it calms me down to have time again to reflect in this direction.

While we're on the subject of "indulging" yourself with the guests, let us ask you about the unusual, perhaps somewhat provocative dishes that you sometimes serve. You use ingredients that are not always available everywhere and that guests are not used to seeing on restaurant menus – such as tuna bone marrow, goat brains, and the like.

I must admit that it is easier to serve more unusual ingredients, such as offal, to tourists who travel for food – i.e., foodies from abroad, who always managed to find their way to us at our previous location – than to TaBar's current local clientele. We therefore had to start cooking more conservatively in the bar, as we understand that this type of food is not for everyone, but we can "go wild" as much as we want on the upper floor with our signature cuisine. The menu represents my personal story and philosophy of life. I enjoy fishing and hunting, where the rule is that when you catch an animal, you first remove the innards, and so it only makes sense to use these innards at the restaurant.

Besides hunting, fishing, and farming (you share a field with Luka Košir from Grič), do you also engage in gathering? Have you ever come across an ingredient in nature that sparked an idea for a dish you were creating?

I come from Železniki, where my family taught me how people used to live, so these things are nothing new to me. In the past, people foraged for food to survive, collecting whatever they could find, and today this is called gathering. Even when I was a kid, we used to pick raspberries and make raspberry jam, as well as flowers for tea and mushrooms, of course. It's hard to say what influences the development of ideas as you move about, but having a garden or gathering food in the wild is definitely a very specific thing, as seasonality, which is everchanging, plays a big role. A plum is ripe when it's ripe, that's all there is to it. When you go out into nature and something inspires you, the season for it may be over before you can even develop the idea. Ideas for seasonal dishes must be developed in anticipation of the seasons, otherwise nature will simply overtake you.

The aforementioned field, which you cultivate together with Luka Košir, is also a kind of creative workshop. Have you turned a "failure" in the garden into a success on the plate?

On the menu on the upper floor, we currently have a paste made from vegetables that are first fermented and then roasted. It is a very strong-tasting paste with a lot of umami. It was created last year when September and October were very rainy. Nothing was ripening, so I took some vegetables that weren't very nice and fermented them. This paste, which is an example of how to use up even "unsuccessful" crops, is served on a plate shaped like a deer's head, and instead of antlers, a bunch of herbs is stuck into the cast. I made this mould myself, and now it serves as a very distinctly shaped plate. All of this is in line with the philosophy of sustainability that we strive to follow in our cuisine.
In fact, when I walk in the garden or in nature, even if I'm not thinking or searching, an idea will come to me as if it fell from the sky. If you think actively, you are sort of forcing yourself, which is not good. You will come up with an idea, sure, but usually after a good night's sleep you realise that something's just not right about it.
If you live a certain way, things happen naturally. As I mentioned earlier, my parents taught me how to forage. At the time, it annoyed me – I didn't want to pick those raspberries – but today I can see the value in it, and I regret not asking more questions, observing more closely, and learning more.

The Slovenian "terroir" encompasses the Alps, forests, the Adriatic coast, and many other diverse ecosystems. How important is it that your dishes confidently convey this Slovenian identity? And to what extent do you look abroad for inspiration, particularly in terms of techniques? Do you even think about that or are you just going with the flow and creating freely from hyper-local ingredients?

I believe that by living a life that is truly yours – not learned or acquired – you automatically create an authentic personal statement. My culinary expression is not the result of learning. It comes from within me, although I do allow foreign influences to guide it. If I remained rooted in Slovenian soil, no technique or other knowledge I acquired would "stick out".

Your tasting menus also include wine pairings. How are wines selected for the menu? Are you involved in this process yourself?

The current pairing is quite intense, attractive, and wild, but we will soon be adding a gentler variant, as we understand that, when it comes to wine, youthful and wild is not for everyone. So we will have more options: the original, which is intense and demanding and, like my food, encourages reflection and debate while also requiring a lot of attention. The second option will be lighter, allowing the food to speak for itself, gently accompanying and complementing it. And the third option will be non-alcoholic, as we've seen growing demand for that.
The process of creating the pairings is as follows: I come up with the menu, Jurij prepares the drink suggestions, I give my opinion, which carries a certain amount of weight, and then we work together to decide on the best combination. Jurij knows what he's doing when it comes to wine. I like talking about wine myself, and of course I enjoy drinking a glass or two, but for now I don't feel the need to study it in any great detail.

Slovenia is slowly transforming from a rising star into a serious European culinary destination. How do you feel about the fact that more and more younger chefs, including those of your generation, are getting noticed? And where do you see TaBar’s place in this story?

Perhaps I am lucky that Ljubljana is small and, compared to larger European cities, the range of options is correspondingly narrower, which means we are quite visible. Among visitors from abroad who find us, there are few who don't know exactly where they’re coming to. At the previous location, there were many more such “accidental” visitors, especially in summer. Now that we are somewhat removed from the city centre, they have to make a conscious effort to come to us. This is probably also the result of our presence in foreign culinary media, as they are often more appreciative of eating here than the locals are. We are working on changing this as well.

When we ask around a little, many culinary travellers have a similar itinerary for Slovenia, and they also keep coming back. These are guests who are very knowledgeable about food, and it's wonderful to exchange opinions with them. On the other hand, these guests also have high expectations, which is a challenge for us. We want to meet their expectations in terms of the level of service they will receive from us. We try hard, we often succeed, sometimes we make mistakes, but that's just how it is. Those who don't try cannot make mistakes. However, we always make sure that we learn from our mistakes and grow from them.
I hope that some of the credit for being chosen by guests again and again goes to our good work in helping to cocreate the destination.

Your job requires a lot of time and energy. How do you balance your life as a chef with your personal life? How do you like to relax and recharge your batteries?

If I were to count all the hours I put into my work, my profession would be completely unsustainable. That's why we found an expression that makes it all sound a little nicer: my profession is my way of life. (laughs) So that's how I live, I chose it myself and I do what I love, but I also definitely look forward to being able to take a break. You only appreciate moments like that when you step out for a while. When you take a break, you always tell yourself you should do it more often.
We actually spend quite a lot of time together as a family, although perhaps at different times to "normal people" who work from nine to five. We go to tend the field together and my daughter recently suggested that she would like to go hunting with me. I am delighted when my children want to spend time together like this. It helps to strengthen our bond and we get to enjoy quality time together.

On Saturdays, I bring my daughters, aged two and five, to work with me for a few hours, and they are proud to be working in a restaurant. The two-year-old gets a butter knife, cuts up the strawberries, and thinks it's cool to hand the sliced strawberries to the cooks who are starting their shift, and they thank her for it. This is what I mean when I talk about a way of life.
Of course, motivation and energy levels drop from time to time – but then the hunting season starts and I set aside a few hours a day for it, which really energises me. In autumn, the hunting season ends, but then the fishing season begins. A few times a year, I go fishing for a couple of days – we smell of gasoline and sardines, we are very active on the boat, and the feeling is invigorating and pulls you out of your routine. Before I became so involved in hunting and fishing, gardening attracted me in a similar way.

What are some of your favourite restaurants and bars in and around Ljubljana? Where would you recommend to a guest visiting Ljubljana for the first time?

I like going to "Pri Stričku". Blaž and I have been friends since the second day of high school, and I was even the best man at his wedding. But it's not just about friendship. Their food is sincere, good; it's just right! There are few places like this left. With each new generation, everyone looks for shortcuts.

My wife Lucija loves sushi, and my daughters eat it too, so we often go to Sushimama. I really want to visit Silk & Fizz, but I haven't managed to yet. These are young guys who care, who have the same approach to work, and the same ideas that drive my restaurant. I would definitely recommend Grič to anyone looking for ultra-local, ultra-conceptual cuisine, even though I don't eat out there myself, as I'm there all the time for other reasons. (laughs) I also like to pop into Okrepčevalnica Savska which, in my opinion, serves the best burek in Ljubljana.